Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign Dor pronamt, Nizzana, Yevona, Yoda and Muslims Freid Samsama war ondermensgrappe and immigrante Ait Ukerine and Russland. Who is Diet Mauchluk and what can the rest? Von Israel von Dit vorbild Lire. Avi Cohen is the director. Van Nizana and Heise here by uns in the studio. Avi, welcome in our studio. So, in a couple of words, what is Nizana?
[00:00:33] Speaker B: First of all, thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here.
For me, Nizzana, first of all, is a place of hope and it's a place of love and a place of love, of mankind.
Nizana is a village. It's a village.
[00:00:47] Speaker A: It's not a usual village. It's a youth village.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: Exactly, a youth village. A very special place for young men and women coming from all over Israel for a very meaningful period of time, where they are preparing themselves for the mature life and having a place that support them, give them love, give them the security and the confidence they need in order to have all the opportunities and equal opportunities for each kid that comes, never mind if he comes from a Bedouin family in the Negev or if he coming from Tel Aviv, we believe each one of them needs to have all he needs in order to achieve his dreams in Israel.
[00:01:27] Speaker A: So could you say that Nitzana is actually a school instead of a village?
[00:01:31] Speaker B: Ye, it's a special school, a school for life, I would say.
We have actually few schools in Itzana, but the kids in Itzana, they are not only going to school. We believe that each men and women, each young kid, need to have an environment that gives them the opportunities to flourish in all parts of life. So of course there is school and there is the intellectual part, but also music and art and sport.
We want to create a place where you can develop as human beings in everything you need.
[00:02:05] Speaker A: So how many ethnicities are living in Itzana together?
[00:02:09] Speaker B: We have people from whoever lives in Israel, almost have a part in Itzana. So we have the bad ones. We have Arab, Muslims, we have Christians, and we have Jews, all of us together in the same village.
[00:02:20] Speaker A: And also immigrants from Ukraine and Russia.
[00:02:23] Speaker B: Exactly. So we have few different programs. And this is also one of the very special things about Nitzana. It's young men and women from diverse backgrounds and from different cultures. And Itzana is a home for all of them. So for example, one of our programs, the one that is the oldest one in Itzana. Almost 40 years right now for young men and women coming from Russia and Ukraine, their first year in Israel will be in Itzana.
You can imagine probably how hard it is to leave your country, to leave your family and your friends and everything you are used to, but something is calling them to come to Israel.
[00:03:06] Speaker A: So this is their first stop.
[00:03:07] Speaker B: This is their first stop. Nizana.
[00:03:09] Speaker A: So what is the secret of Nizzana? Because there is people from many ethnicities living together in a small youth village. What is your secret?
[00:03:20] Speaker B: I think the secret is, and it might sound as a cliche, but it's simply love, love between people.
And I think the secret is that when we are far away from each other, when we don't have the opportunity to meet each other face to face, so we can have different thoughts about each other, we can have hate, and we can have all these things we grow up in, because many of us grow up in bubbles. But if me and you, if we meet each other and we grow up in the same environment and we have the opportunity to spe and to know each other, our fears, our dreams, then there is an opportunity to connect, because we believe that the differences are not the main thing, because we have so much in common as human beings, and we are living in the same country, and all of us want the country to be successful.
[00:04:18] Speaker A: Yeah, but it sounds like the ideal world you're describing. You know, everybody is together, everybody is working together with love. But I'm sure there are also tensions between each other. Right?
[00:04:29] Speaker B: So so many tensions.
[00:04:31] Speaker A: Can you. Can you explain?
[00:04:33] Speaker B: Yes. Everything I described to you, it sounds ideal because this is our lighthouse. This is where we are inspiring.
[00:04:42] Speaker A: This is the goal.
[00:04:43] Speaker B: This is the goal. Of course, the way, like everything in life, which was working for the way, is hard, very hard.
And the young students that arrived in Itzana, it's very weird for them. And of course, when something is different than you used to, you are trying to protect.
[00:05:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Can you give an example of this? What happened in the past that you think, oh, this was a difficult moment. But we.
[00:05:07] Speaker B: I think, for example, some of the Jewish young in the age of 15 arriving to Nizana. So I came to make conversation with them. It was really in the beginning. And they saw them holding these sticks, long wooden sticks. And I asked them, why are you holding these sticks? And they told me, what do you mean? Because there are bad ones.
[00:05:31] Speaker A: For protection.
[00:05:32] Speaker B: For protection.
And I told them, you don't need the sticks. You will meet them. They are lovely. Boys and you will get along together.
But of course, in the beginning there is fear and there is also different way to see things. And for example, the Bedouin, some of the students arriving to Nitsana suffered from different things in their life. For example, violence. There is a lot of weapon in the Bedouin parts. And they come and they are sometimes insecure and they don't know if they can trust us because we are Jews.
[00:06:07] Speaker A: But how do you convince them?
[00:06:10] Speaker B: This is again going back to the secret of Nitsana, simply by living together. So day by day you can prove your responsibility for them by what you do, by giving them the best teachers, by giving them the art classes. And for example, many of them coming to the swimming pool. And you see a boy in the age of 15 looking at the swimming pool, and this is the first time he's seeing a swimming pool. And he's like.
Like this. And then they see that good things happen to them in Itzana, if they are coming in, if they are putting the effort. I must say, not everyone succeed.
[00:06:48] Speaker A: No. What about when 7th of October 23rd happened? The war in Gaza was there for two years. Did it have an impact on the people living in Nisana?
[00:06:58] Speaker B: Of course.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: What happened?
[00:07:03] Speaker B: It's a bit difficult to speak about it because it was really a painful moment. I would say that even before the war, Litsana is a very special place. It's not so common that you see people from so different places come together.
Muslims and Jews and new immigrants and people that born in Israel. So at the beginning, it's already a special place, very sensitive, very delicate. You have to handle it very carefully. And then, of course. But then this war happens when something so big happens.
It was an earthquake, and I remember that the Arab staff, because it happened on Saturday, so most of the stuff was outside from Litsana. And the Arab staff, some of them called me and they told me, we can't come tomorrow to the village.
[00:07:53] Speaker A: Why not?
[00:07:54] Speaker B: We are afraid that we will be killed, that there will be a revenge on us.
And then I invited everyone to a zoom meeting and I told them with tears that even in the darkest moments, even right now, when dark is all around us and pain and violence, we have to hold hope.
We are holding the hope, never letting it go. And this is our biggest test.
And I promised them with my life that they will come and that they will be protected and we will go through it together.
And some of them decided to come, not all of them. It took time, but some of the staff came and Then the kids came, also the Jews, and also the bad ones.
And slowly, slowly we build ourselves through the war together.
[00:08:51] Speaker A: Was there any doubt in the beginning of the war in yourself?
Was there a question? Can I trust my colleagues? Can I trust the children?
[00:09:07] Speaker B: I don't think I questioned it, but it was so difficult because we went to war.
I myself also.
And then you see the videos from.
From the kibbutzim at the. And the language of the terrorists.
[00:09:24] Speaker A: You mean the videos that they made themselves, the terrorists with the GoPro, the.
[00:09:29] Speaker B: Unspoken violence that has been there.
And the language is Arabic. And this is the language of your kids and of your fellow members.
[00:09:39] Speaker A: So it's difficult.
[00:09:40] Speaker B: So it's so difficult because you hear the shouts and then it's so difficult to describe the pain that we had in the 7th of October. So, of course everything got connected. So it's difficult. But as people, I never question them.
I just hope that we will be strong enough in order to go through it together, because it easily could be broken.
[00:10:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
So you described that after October 7th, first staff came together, or part of the staff came together, then the children came together. But afterwards, when things are back to normal, even though there is a war going on in Gaza, was Nitzana just back as it was before the war?
[00:10:27] Speaker B: No.
[00:10:27] Speaker A: No.
[00:10:28] Speaker B: Now in the Israeli reality, and especially in Nitsana, there is so much pain.
And some of our people died in the war.
Some of my staff from Litsana died in the war.
And the Bedouin family, some of them have families in Gaza. So also some of them been killed.
So you need to understand that everything happening in our world was surrounded by pain and by questions and by fear, what will be. But what we are trying to do as a community is to take the mission to be a beacon of hope.
And everyone in Itzana, when they decided, we still believe we are here together. So we also got the power, you know, and the soul opening, because we understand our mission is that in the time of dark, to be the light. And I think you can find it from the kids to the manager, all of us in it together.
So it also gave us protection from the pain and also gave us a sense of meaningful in what we are doing.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: Yeah. You sometimes also have discussions, for example, with the staff about politics or about what should be the solution for the war.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: Yes. So as I told you, there was, of course, tension, especially in the beginning. And I remember sitting in one of each program as a manager. So we have a table, we're sitting all the managers together, and Suddenly, one of the managers of the Bedouin program and the manager of the Russian program, I felt something is, you know, going almost become violent in the room, in the meeting.
So I understand that we have to do special conversations, and we brought people that are expert in doing this kind of hard.
[00:12:24] Speaker A: Like counseling?
[00:12:25] Speaker B: Yes, like counseling. Also Arab and also a Jew. They were two. They were doing this together. And they took us and we dove with them to the hardest subjects there are because, you know, we want to be friends. We are friends. We are colleagues.
[00:12:42] Speaker A: So even though on a political level you don't agree, but you still are friends.
[00:12:46] Speaker B: Yes, of course. Sometimes we have disagreements, and most of the time we're trying to put it aside. But now I understand that if we put it aside, it will come out not good. So we decided that we open the things, even if it's hard, even if it demands everything you have, and do it with people that we trusted in. And this really help us to connect again.
[00:13:08] Speaker A: In what way is Nitzana, the things you are sharing with me now, in what way is Nitzana an example for the rest of the country?
[00:13:16] Speaker B: Okay, So I think now one of the biggest threats on Israel, and it always been, for my belief, it's not our enemies from the outside. I am not afraid of Hamas. I'm not afraid. Not from Hezbollah and not from Israel.
I think our biggest challenge is the connection between us, between the Israelis.
There are.
Our last president, call it tribes. There are different tribes in Israel. And they think now that we already have Israel. We have to find a common vision and the common values that both of us believe, even if we have differences between us.
And. And this is what Nitzana is doing. We are trying to sow, to make an example of very different people living in the same village and becoming better people.
[00:14:11] Speaker A: On the other hand, if we zoom out and we look to the country of Israel, we see that you have Bedouin villages, you have Arab villages, you have Jewish villages, you have Christian villages. And it seems like people are living in their own communities, but maybe not have so much contact with each other.
So do you think that's a good thing, or do you think Israel should change something there.
[00:14:38] Speaker B: So you can see it even not only with the Christians and the Muslims, but also inside the Jewish community. We have the sikhulars, we have the ultra Orthodox, we have the Tzionu datit, we have.
[00:14:51] Speaker A: They live separately.
[00:14:52] Speaker B: And all of us are living in bubbles.
And, yes, I can see that there are some good things about that, that you can live the way you want, and you can do whatever you want. But in the end, we are the same country, we are the same people. When we are going to serve the country, let's say, for example, in the army, and you will take a tank. In a tank you have four people.
And you will see there are people from all over Israel.
And we will need to build this country. We are building it together. When Hamas came to kill Israel, then.
[00:15:23] Speaker A: It didn't make a difference if you.
[00:15:25] Speaker B: Are Bedouin, if you are Orthodox, if you are Jew, or if you are Christian. We were all the same.
We are all the same. So I believe we have to find the way, because now we are living in bubbles.
And I think we need to find a balance between, yes, living in communities, it is nice, but also to build the common ground, that we can work together to connect in order to build the country together and take responsibility together. For example, now to the army, only 30% of the Israeli people will go. This is unacceptable.
[00:15:58] Speaker A: Yeah. So let's talk about the Bedouin community, because you also have a lot of Bedouin children in Nitsana. Do Bedouins see themselves as Israelis or as Palestinians?
[00:16:11] Speaker B: So I would say it's very personal.
Some of them do see themselves as Israelis, some of them maybe as Palestinians. And some of them don't understand what they connect to, which is a very difficult feeling.
The situation wasn't like this 20 years ago.
I think as a country, we weren't professional enough in order to create the reality that the bad ones connect to the core of the Israelites, that they.
[00:16:39] Speaker A: Feel part of the systematic.
[00:16:41] Speaker B: They drifted from the Israeli core because they are nomads and they have a culture of nomads. So it's very difficult how you solve the problem with the land and with the houses.
So because of it, they are drifting away. And as a country, sometimes we.
We looked away and we don't believe in looking away.
There are many things you can do working with the bad ones. We believe in education and in love, making education a gate for them to coming back to the Israeli core.
[00:17:17] Speaker A: So when Nitsana started the school and when you thought, okay, it would be good to connect also the Bedouin community, what was their reaction to this project?
[00:17:28] Speaker B: First of all, they really suspected us, like, what's going on?
Are you talking the truth? Maybe you want to make us Jews and you make us want to go to the army, they didn't trust us at the beginning. I think this was the main challenge, how we create trust.
[00:17:46] Speaker A: How did you convince them?
[00:17:48] Speaker B: So we went to the villages, we went to their places and we. We spoke many nights together. And I think we began with the leaders.
[00:17:57] Speaker A: You speak Arabic also?
[00:17:59] Speaker B: Yes, not that good, but.
And we sat with the leaders of the tribes and we understand them. We explained the goals and the vision, what we want to do. And once they understand and wanted to give it a chance, so they become the messengers for the Bedouin families. And it began slowly, slowly, with 15 stones, 20 students, and now it's already 150. And there is no more place.
[00:18:27] Speaker A: No. So do the Bedouin children have specific challenges that you have to address in the school?
[00:18:33] Speaker B: Yes, definitely.
Unfortunately, schools in the Bedouin villages, especially the non formal ones, which are not known by the state, the situation with the education is really bad. For example, when a kid come to make the test to get inside the Sana, they are coming at the age of 15. And when we are doing them the exams, they have the results. I mean, only in the high school system they have the results of 11 or 10 years old.
So we have something like four or five years gap in the situation when they arrive to Nizana. So we need to work very effectively and very hard to bring them. And they are small, amazing boys.
When they get everything they need, they go fast. But there is such a big gap we have to go through.
And the second gap is the language, which is also the biggest opportunity.
[00:19:30] Speaker A: Because you teach in Hebrew.
[00:19:31] Speaker B: I think we teach in Arab. But for me I want them to connect to the Israeli society and I want them to go to university. And as you know, the university, you study in Hebrew. So my main goal, one of our main goal is to help them to speak Hebrew. And I know if after four years in Itzana, he could sit in front of you and speak fluish Hebrew, then the chances he will get in the.
[00:19:53] Speaker A: Israeli society will be much higher, much bigger. And about teaching Hebrew, because There is also 110Olim coming from Russia and Ukraine. And Olim is the Jewish people making aliyah, so coming to live in Israel, so they also have to learn the language. What is the challenge with this group of people?
[00:20:14] Speaker B: So they are arriving to Israel a bit older than the bad ones. They are 18 years old.
And of course changing all system of your life in the age of 18, when you are entering the mature world, it's a very critical point. And they think that it's very hard for a young man or a woman to come to Israel, to the desert and start building your life again without your friends, without your families, to be like this, going To Israel. Language is, of course, one of the main challenges they have, but I think Igbo is not such a difficult language.
[00:20:52] Speaker A: I don't agree with that, but maybe.
[00:20:55] Speaker B: But they study quite quick. I think after one year they can manage. They can manage. Definitely.
[00:21:01] Speaker A: We talked about the school, but there is also a project, especially since 7th of October happening, that a lot of volunteers are coming to Nizzana to help. Help there. What kind of work are they doing?
[00:21:12] Speaker B: Okay, so first of all, this is an amazing project. I would say that most of what we are doing in the villages around Itzana, we are built upon agriculture.
And there are many foreign workers, Thai workers.
And in the 7th of October, also, many Thai people died.
[00:21:29] Speaker A: Were abducted or died.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: Yes, abducted or died. Again, showing how much the Hamas doesn't care about.
And the king told all the Thai people to come back to Thailand.
So suddenly, the agriculture almost had a problem. Had a problem, no workers.
And then you are facing this challenge, and then suddenly a big light is coming. And the light is coming from here.
[00:21:57] Speaker A: Yeah, from Holland, from Germany, because there's an organization, Le Mancha, and they sent constantly.
[00:22:04] Speaker B: They send the volunteers to Nizhana, begins with the volunteers. And then they became the organization of Leman Ja with Willow and Annie and Fabiola and Philippe. Amazing people that brought volunteers to work in agriculture. First of all, they work amazing, amazing people.
And more than the agricultural work, it was like a vote of confidence in Israel and in us because many people, for example, not living in Itzana and don't know about this. When I'm telling them about this, they can't believe. They say, what? Everyone hates us. We can see all the demonstrations in Amsterdam and in London and the world hates us. And I tell them no.
[00:22:49] Speaker A: In Itzana, you can see that.
[00:22:50] Speaker B: They can see your wisdom. We are eating together, we are working together, we are living together.
And this is friendship and this is support. And we needed it so much. And it's also an opportunity to say thank you for all of this.
[00:23:03] Speaker A: I have one last question for you, because there is also a possibility for visitors to come and visit Nitsana.
Why would people come? You know, people watching this show and they think, well, I'm traveling to Israel, maybe I can pay a visit to Nitsana. So why would I come?
[00:23:20] Speaker B: Because everything we talked about, I think, never mind if you are Israeli or Dutch or an American, you looking for a way to live your life with meaning and to do things that are important and to believe in hope, even in the most darkest hours. And I think Nitsana is an example of this, of these kind of people. And it's also so beautiful.
[00:23:45] Speaker A: Okay, so, Aviko, and thank you very much for coming in our studio and telling us about Nitsana.
