Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: Judea and Samaria. Ok, well, the Westlige Jordan is ein from the Maesbies.
Ambassador, welcome in our show.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: Thank you very much.
[00:00:37] Speaker A: Thank you for being here. You have been ambassador for the State of Israel here in the Netherlands for a full year now. What is your impression of the Netherlands?
[00:00:46] Speaker B: Well, Netherlands as a country is a beautiful country and with a lot of, you know, life is nice and pleasant and so on. But I think that when it comes to politics and diplomacy, we are probably in one of the worst times in the relation between the two countries.
[00:01:02] Speaker A: This is a challenging time for Israel. The relation between Israel and the Netherlands, you say?
[00:01:06] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:01:07] Speaker A: In what way?
[00:01:08] Speaker B: Well, I think that we find ourselves in the midst of a kind of a flood of anti Israeli and pro Palestinian attacks on media and politics.
We see rise of anti Semitism, which is always a source of concern for us.
And we don't always feel that we get full conversation with the government here on all the issues that are of concern to us.
[00:01:33] Speaker A: We're going to talk about that later. But for you being an ambassador here for the State of Israel, what is your main goal that you have here in the Netherlands?
[00:01:41] Speaker B: Well, ambassadors, wherever they go and no matter what time we're talking about, aim to create a network of connection and to of course, work with people that are friendly to our country, but also to enlarge the scope of our contacts here in the field of politics, in the field of culture, in the field of academia and other things. And that's mainly what we do. And that's what we do here. The condition is higher.
[00:02:09] Speaker A: Sorry, Is it working?
[00:02:10] Speaker B: It's working, but since we are in a very tough time, it requires more efforts, it requires more patience.
But we are insisting because that's the best way of advancing Israel is really reaching a situation of conversation with as many people as possible.
[00:02:30] Speaker A: So later in this interview we're going to talk about settler violence, as I also said in my introduction, we're going to talk about how the Israeli army deals with that. But first I want to talk with you about anti Semitism, because recent studies show the rise of antisemitism physical but also online in the Netherlands. How do you experience this?
[00:02:53] Speaker B: Antisemitism in the Netherlands is growing on a day to day basis on all facets of life.
You can see it in networks, you can see it in incident that their numbers keep on growing. You see it in the way universities are blocking any different opinion and make Jewish and Israeli students feel unsafe.
You can see it in the fact that Franz Timmerman pronounced Anti Semitic statement. And you see hardly any reaction coming from official Netherlands and from other people into opposition as if it's a. Okay, as if it's acceptable because van
[00:03:34] Speaker A: Stimmerman's the former minister.
[00:03:39] Speaker B: He was a Minister of Foreign Affairs.
[00:03:40] Speaker A: What did he say exactly?
[00:03:41] Speaker B: He basically said that what Israel is doing now is basically what the Nazis did in Germany. Now this is what it's called, Holocaust inversion. And it's defined in the IHRA definition of anti Semitism as a very classical type of anti Semitism. You're basically blaming us for being. For being as he said. I don't even want to repeat it. It's disgusting.
Tim Romans is. Is not an issue. He's negligible. He's not important anymore. He used to be in a position here, but he's a known man in the Netherlands. And the fact that no one felt the need to respond to what he said, no one felt the need to say, we do not accept this, this is anti Semitic. This should not be heard in Netherlands.
[00:04:22] Speaker A: You think that's a mistake?
[00:04:24] Speaker B: That's a big mistake. And I think, to say the least, lack of sensitivity, because this was a plain anti Semitic remark. Now if you make this kind of statement and no one is react, it's a kind of an approval and then other people who really tend to be more anti Semitic will go the same direction.
[00:04:43] Speaker A: So what about you personally? Do you experience antisemitism here?
[00:04:48] Speaker B: I'm not a good example, you know, because I less than others, you know, strolling in the street and so on.
But I see it through other, as I said, event that I see in universities, which is a great source of concern and in reaction to antisemitism. And my feeling, as I said, is that much more should be done.
[00:05:08] Speaker A: What do you think is the cause of this rise of anti Semitism?
[00:05:12] Speaker B: Well, the event of 7 October was followed by a very, very well organized, very well orchestrated campaign all around Europe and in fact all around the Western world.
[00:05:23] Speaker A: 7th of October was a trigger moment.
[00:05:25] Speaker B: Yes. I mean, for us it was shocking. Only a few days after this horrible attack and massacre in the border of Gaza, inside of civilian villages and towns in Israel, the reaction was not. There was a very short time of empathy, but afterward there was a wave of anti Israeli sentiment. As part of this anti Israeli sentiment, there is all of a sudden a kind of a license given for people who are anti Semite to say what they want. We have no issue with criticism. We take criticism and we have within the Israeli society a lot of Debate.
But we cannot accept when people cross the line and go from criticizing Israel to basically being anti Semitic.
[00:06:07] Speaker A: Can you give me an example of that? Crossing the line, for example, from the
[00:06:10] Speaker B: Jordan to the sea, from the river to the sea, basically say to you, we would like to see the Jewish state eliminated.
[00:06:18] Speaker A: You say, this is anti Semitism.
[00:06:19] Speaker B: This is anti Semitism.
Why would you say such a thing? Why would you take from us the legitimacy as a nation to have our own country? It's a statement, it's a demonstration. But that's anti Semitic. Okay. Or when people talk about the fact that what is happening in Israel is part of a big, bigger conspiracy of the Jews. That's classical anti Semitism. That's like a cartoon in Folkrand recently.
Few of those that basically have anti Semitic traits.
And no one, not in Folkrans, not in other institutions that has to do with journalism is saying, listen, this is the line you crossed and now you're into anti Semitic territory.
[00:07:01] Speaker A: How do you think the government is responding to the rise of antisemitism?
[00:07:06] Speaker B: I think on operational level, I think they're doing what they can. And you know, you should talk with people from the Jewish communities, how they feel about the amount of assistance that they receive. But since most of the world today, most of the manifestation of antisemitism is in the networks, in social networks.
[00:07:26] Speaker A: You mean online?
[00:07:27] Speaker B: And online you need to put more. The government need to put more effort into reacting publicly, clearly, about those things when they happen. Timur Manz is just an example.
So they have to react and say it. This is anti Semitism. Because people are kind of looking for guidance from their government. When do I cross this line? And they should be very clear about it. And they are. Sometimes I find them to be a little bit hesitant.
[00:07:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Because since 2025, the Dutch government is raising the budget for the combat of antisemitism to 4.5 million euros yearly. So how do think the government is doing when it comes to protecting the Jewish community, combating anti Semitism?
[00:08:13] Speaker B: No, as I said, I think that there are efforts being done on mayor's level or on the government level. And as you indicated, there are bigger budgets allocated to this. And it's up for the Jewish community to say that, but I do identify efforts on the side of the government. What I feel lacking is the public sphere, because this is where things happen.
The clear message should come from a minister on behalf of the government when statements are being made, when lines are being crossed. And I think it will convey message not only to the Public, but also maybe to some people even in the fulcrums to consider if this is the kind, the type of anti Semitic cartoon they want to publish in their speak out more.
[00:08:56] Speaker A: That's why your message absolutely be clear.
[00:08:58] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:08:58] Speaker A: You've been attending the memorial of the in Rotterdam of the deporting of the Jews during the Holocaust. It was a few weeks ago, in August. There were quite a few protesters and people who didn't want you to speak over there. What was it like for you? Because you were there, you spoke.
[00:09:17] Speaker B: Of course I didn't have any for any second thought of not being there.
This is another kind of, another level in the campaign against Israel.
They attempt to disassociate the Jewish state from the Holocaust.
People didn't want me to be there. For all their explanation and excuses, we of course do not accept it. The Jewish community did not accept it.
And I'm happy to say that on the same day there was a lot of people around, bigger crowd than usual.
And the leaders of the community came from Amsterdam and other cities to participate in this, basically sending a message. This is important for us. And the ambassador of the state of Israel, which is dear to our heart, should be there.
And I was very happy to be there. You know, the hecklers were shouting and fine, but I think it was very well taken care of by the local police.
[00:10:14] Speaker A: Didn't you consider for a minute maybe I should not attend because I don't want this memorial to be tainted by the conflict that's going on in the Middle east right now.
[00:10:24] Speaker B: This is not about me. It's not about me staying at home on weekend and doing what I want to do.
[00:10:29] Speaker A: Is it not?
[00:10:30] Speaker B: No, it's not about me. It's about a very, very kind of principle question.
Do we accept the idea that as the representative of the sole Jewish state on earth, I would be prevented from coming to an event about the Holocaust? And I gotta say something for people to understand.
Ambassadors of the state of Israel, wherever they go, one of the first things they do is meet the Jewish community. The Jewish community is very, very important to us. Those are our brothers and sisters. Their well being is important to us. I mean, and the connection between us is very, very close. It doesn't mean that they are responsible to every decision made by any government of Israel. They are brothers.
[00:11:09] Speaker A: But there is a connection, there is
[00:11:10] Speaker B: a connection, historical connection.
And at this critical moment to allow someone to say from now on, we will not allow Israeli ambassador, if you allow it once, you will find yourself, you know, pressed to do it more and more.
And this is a long campaign, it's going to take a while, and we are ready for it. But this is a principled question, not about me and my willingness. It was clear to me that I have to be there, that I have to speak. And in the end, you know, when the hecklers were a little bit pushed aside, the message came through. It was not about them. It was about this day, about Holocaust.
And, you know, this is a memory of the Holocaust. We're not talking about the state of Israel. We're not talking about other things.
Those people, the remnant of the Jewish community in Rotterdam, came in to remember the big community that ceased to exist in the Holocaust.
[00:12:03] Speaker A: Exactly. Do you understand the people that have trouble making a difference between legal criticism on Israel and anti Semitism? Because you say there is a line, sometimes people cross a line. But we also hear from people that they say, I want to criticize Israel, but when I do it, people call me an anti Semite.
[00:12:25] Speaker B: I can tell you how I define the difference between the two. I mean, criticism, as I said, is an integral part of Israeli society. If you go to Israel, you read the same article from the right, from the left.
We have an election soon. So it's a very intense time.
And you definitely have a disagreement and even a division like in any other democratic country today.
But there is a moment in which it slips away from just the government of Israel policy regarding the Palestinian or Gaza or Lebanon or whatever, into the Jews and their control in the world and the media into the Jewish state, which the idea of a Jewish state is illegitimate, into a kind of let's wipe them out or kick them out from an event. You see many, many occasions which people are shouting at Jews just passing by and because they're Jewish, that's anti Semitism.
There was a very interesting report from the United States about a member of Congress or one is about to be a member of Congress, who was very critical of Israel, very, very critical of Israel. And he came to an event and then he was shouted at because he is a Jew. And those things are very chillingly familiar to us.
This is not about the Jewish people. This is not the state of Israel. This is about the decision of the government you're criticizing. If you slip into something which goes into this sphere of the Jews, the Jewish state, the actual role of Jews in the world, then you are basically going through anti Semitism.
[00:14:03] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a slippery slope.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: Absolutely. It's a slippery slope, yes.
[00:14:06] Speaker A: So a few months ago, the Israeli embassy in the Hague was vandalized by a man who also planned to set the building on fire.
[00:14:14] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:14:15] Speaker A: How do you feel if something so violent happens?
[00:14:18] Speaker B: Unfortunately, it happened already few times. This was one of the examples. We have been notified, by the way, last week that after sitting 10 months in jail, he was already released.
So it wasn't that costly for him to try and burn down the building of the embassy.
But it was. You know, the police do its work and we appreciate it, but it's scary. I think it's scary. It's scary because it gets closer sometime.
We try our best to take care of our security too.
It's a shame because I think in many cases those are people that are misled or drifted with this kind of wave of antisemitism or criticism against us.
But, you know, embassies are on the front line always, and we know that and it's part of our work. And we thank the police and the security forces for making their best effort to protect us.
[00:15:12] Speaker A: Yeah, so we're talking about rising anti Semitism, we're talking about violence against the embassy in the Hague. What is giving you hope in this crazy period?
[00:15:22] Speaker B: You know, as I said, the way I see it, we are in the middle of a very, very long campaign.
And it will take a while, a long while, maybe to fix all of this or to convince people to really delve into realities.
Most of the people that speak about the Middle east, about Gaza Strip and about Israel do not know what they're saying.
They're just taking slogans, put you on their T shirt, put you on their sign and go to the street.
I don't see a real profound understanding. And I know it's confusing. The Middle east is a very confusing region.
Very, very complicated to explain and so on and so forth. But the eagerness and the enthusiasm of people going, demonstrating this will take a long time to change this trend.
[00:16:10] Speaker A: Are you optimistic about this?
[00:16:13] Speaker B: Very cautiously optimistic. You know, first of all, because it's a complicated issue. Second, because there is a certain vibe in the street that need to change. Those things do take time.
I'm not losing hope because I know at the same time that we have many friends of Israel in this country and I meet them everywhere.
Of course, Jewish community is obvious, but then of course, many Christians who are friends of Israel, but even, you know, day to day people I meet here tell me in many cases that they understand, they feel, you know, closeness to Israel. They do sympathize, but many of them are either a little bit afraid to say something because unfortunately, There is a violence in the air from the other side. And if you say something for Israel, your business might be vandalized. You yourself might be shamed in the media, in social network.
It's scary. It's very scary. Those people do not hesitate to hurt whoever say something against them. I know from ministries, from companies, from different organizations, that people tell me within those organizations, we do not think like the policy of my organization. But I cannot voice it up. If I say something, something unpleasant or, you know, difficult will happen to me.
[00:17:31] Speaker A: Let's talk about the settlers. It's one of the most pressing issues at this moment in Israel right now, the settler violence. We often read also in the Dutch news about this, about violent Israeli settlers that are attacking Palestinian villages in the West Bank. They set cars, cause physical harm, they force Palestinians to leave their homes. And often it is reported also in the Dutch media that the idf, the Israeli army, is not doing anything or is watching everything happen.
And this raises doubts about the policy of Israel about, you know, what's going on over there, about maybe a double standard that's being used. Can you, can you elaborate a little bit about what your viewpoint about this is?
[00:18:18] Speaker B: Well, this is, first of all is a horrible phenomenon.
There are a bunch of people, you can call them hooligans, you can call them Jewish terrorists that are doing things that are appalling and shouldn't be done and they should get caught and punished. I have no doubts about that.
And it might have taken us a little bit a while to identify the phenomena as such, but there is an acute concern in Israel about that, an awareness that this is happening and it has to be stopped.
If you would see a television news broadcast in Israel almost on a daily basis, they report that, they report what happened, they report how those people take those horrible action and how the army is coming in many cases to take control of this.
Also, when it comes to bringing them to court and punishing, punishing them, sentencing them, there is also, you see a growing number of action being taken.
But it's very clear, I think, to all Israelis, including the government, that this is unacceptable, to say the least. In some cases, it's more than unacceptable, it's criminal, hence should be taken care as criminal activity or terroristic activities.
[00:19:37] Speaker A: Taken care? Yeah, because if we look to, for example, Cannes public broadcaster, they say that a number of serious incidents of nationalistic crime committed by the extremist Jewish settlers in west bank has been rising 63% compared to the same period last year. And however, there's only been a Handful of people who had been arrested or persecuted for their crimes.
You say, on the one hand, Israel has a democratic rule of life. They should be punished for their misdoings.
On the other side, you see, there is not so many people being punished for it. How come?
[00:20:17] Speaker B: Well, probably, I mean, I would agree that probably much more need to be done. And it takes time to understand how they work and it takes time to sometimes capture them. And it takes time to, like in any new phenomena, you take for a while to understand what we're dealing with. Who are the leaders, who is doing exactly what.
[00:20:35] Speaker A: Is this really new, this phenomenon, the scale of the.
[00:20:40] Speaker B: Yes, I think it was much more marginal. As you indicated, the number are growing up, hence we need to take care of it and we should do more. I definitely. I'm not. I wouldn't say I'm happy or satisfied with the situation as it is this moment. And. And it's very clear that things should be done in a more intensive way.
This is disruptive because this is not who we are. It's not even. And I gotta say, it's not all the whole settlement.
When you say settlers, it's a name that was given to them here in Europe.
[00:21:12] Speaker A: People living in Judea and Samaria. Yeah.
[00:21:13] Speaker B: And also East Jerusalem, for example. So I'm sure people who visit Jerusalem didn't feel that they are, you know, so it's a general name and they have moderate elements in them and more extreme elements in them. But the group itself that is involved in this activity is far smaller than the whole population of settlers.
But having said that, I think these.
This phenomena is a troubling one and should be definitely dealt with in the strongest fashion possible.
[00:21:43] Speaker A: Yeah. You say it's a small group of violent settlers.
[00:21:48] Speaker B: It's a very, very extreme, I would say, militant kind of an extreme group.
[00:21:52] Speaker A: How many people are we talking about?
[00:21:55] Speaker B: I don't know. I don't know. I think probably, I would guess, but I don't know. A few thousands. All in all, when you talk about population of a few hundred thousand of Jewish residents in Judea and Samaria.
So this is not like the whole population, but this is still, you know, when it comes to doing bad, you don't need many people. Few can really change the whole trajectory of events. And that is my main concern.
By doing so, they're basically pulling the situation in Judea and Samari into a certain situation which is not good.
[00:22:31] Speaker A: Yeah. So what is the army going to do about it?
[00:22:34] Speaker B: Army have to be instructed and they can, you know, physically they can go to a place as when they can reach it in time and take those people, bring them first of all arrest them and then bring them to justice.
[00:22:47] Speaker A: This is also instruction that they get from the government. You should be more harsh to punish the people that are doing the bad things.
[00:22:56] Speaker B: No, they get their instruction from the chief of staff of the army, from the Ministry of Defence. It's a government decision. And the government decision have been made and Prime Minister have said it very clearly.
So they have the ability and they do it quite often and unfortunately they need to do it recently more because of the rising number of those events, to take control of the area where things are happening, to capture as many of them as they can and bring them into a legal process.
[00:23:27] Speaker A: So let's look at two recent examples that we heard about in the news.
We got many questions about these incidents. In August, the settlers surrounded houses of Palestinian people in the village of Khusra in the West Bank. Also last weekend or two weekends ago, it was in the news, the settlers, they cut the water, they cut the electricity to the house. And even after many hours the army failed to end this siege. This is what the Times of Israel reported. Okay, so what happened there? Is this clear already?
[00:24:04] Speaker B: I'm not sure I have the details of everything that happened in Khusra, but this was followed intensely by the media and there was a lot of the army came there. Timing wise, I cannot confirm if it was quick or it took time.
But in the end what finished the whole event was actually the intervention of the army.
Could we do it better? Probably. Could we do it more forcefully? Probably. And I think this is a kind of a process of realization in Israel that we are dealing with something which is not random, but happened on a more systematic level and hence has to be dealt with quicker.
This is one of the conclusions in that sense. We are a very open society. Things are immediately out there, you see them in the media and there is a lot of debates.
I'm being careful into getting into all of those details first of all, because it's always part of the media dispute in Israel. But the essence is very clear.
Quicker reaction, forceful reaction, finishing the event, taking those people from wherever they are, trying to attack, arresting them and bringing them to justice.
That's what you can do with violent people.
That's our duty.
[00:25:13] Speaker A: The other example that we want to talk about is the village of Taib, north of Ramallah that has also a few weeks ago been attacked by settlers.
Similar story, of course, that there was also said that the army was Acting too late.
Is this thoroughly being invested by the Israeli army?
[00:25:35] Speaker B: Yeah, of course. Event like this, every. Every action taken by the army, this is a procedure, is being later investigated to see whether the reaction was correct, whether we were there, if we were late, why we were late, and so on and so forth. And what will be the conclusion that will help us be more effective next time?
So, of course, events such as Kusra and Taipe have been investigated.
What's the conclusion? It's really for the army to utilize for the next time.
[00:26:05] Speaker A: What do you think about the way it was portrayed in the media, these stories?
[00:26:12] Speaker B: You mean here?
[00:26:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:14] Speaker B: Well, you know, even events that are far less or completely unimportant are overblown in the media here.
So I'm sorry to say that for few exceptions, the Dutch media is very, very harsh. And in many cases, journals really delve very deep into fine checking, and what they publish is very problematic. And I'm not surprised. I mean, this is a very, very complex situation that we have. There is a tension in the region for almost three years, and it's extremely difficult, and everything is very, very explosive.
And sometimes, I think in many cases we do our best, sometimes we're doing less than that, and we investigate ourselves.
But you have to understand the whole complexity of the situation and of the difficult it is.
[00:27:05] Speaker A: What do you think the media should do different, according to your opinion?
[00:27:12] Speaker B: It would be nice if the media would actually pay attention to the Israeli side of the story.
In many cases, they're not interested.
It would be nice if our version of what's happening in the Middle east will be more exposed in this country. It would be nice if Israeli speakers can go to universities. They cannot because they refuse their entry to any campus.
I think that instead of riding a wave of knowing who's to blame, which is us, and knowing who's perfect and, you know, innocent, which is the Palestinian. Maybe there is a time, kind of an adulthood needed here to understand that it's much more complex than you might think.
And things are very, very complicated. And it's important to have two sides of story. And yes, there are two sides to this story.
[00:28:04] Speaker A: But if we look to what Israeli politicians have to say about it. There was a recent video which went viral on social media of the Minister of National Security, Itamar Bengvir.
He said in a podcast that he think that in Gaza, targeted asset assassination should be carried out, taking down 30 to 40 people every night, not those, and I'm quoting him, who oppose an immediate threat. But there are People there who are not worthy of life, they shouldn't live. They're not even people. So this is tough things.
[00:28:41] Speaker B: This is horrible thing to say, to
[00:28:43] Speaker A: say from a minister who is part of the government.
[00:28:45] Speaker B: He can say whatever he want. You know, it's a democracy.
And if we're talking about the fullness of the report, you should also include, not you specifically, but the media should include other remarks made by other politicians saying what they think about this statement, saying what they think about what happened, which they are extremely concerned about.
The polygons in Judea and Samaria, they
[00:29:13] Speaker A: were appalled by this.
[00:29:14] Speaker B: They were appalled by this.
This is not the policy of the government. This is Itamar Ben GVIR speaking in the middle of election campaign which will end in the end of October. And that's. I have nothing to say that will justify this statement.
[00:29:29] Speaker A: But he's still the head of police in Israel.
[00:29:33] Speaker B: He is the minister in charge of the police. He's not running the police. There is also complexity there.
But I think that his opinions are very, very clear. He doesn't make a secret out of them.
They are followed by a very small number of people in Israel, which because his party is not that big and he's very loud and he's campaigning now, I don't think even a campaign could not justify such statement.
[00:30:01] Speaker A: But Silke, can you imagine that people in the Netherlands reading what he is saying, seeing all the things that's happening over there, the violence of the settlers again against Palestinians. They say, well, if Israel is accepting such a person as being a minister of the government, this is saying something about how the government is thinking.
[00:30:23] Speaker B: So, you know, it's perfectly fine to say here or everywhere that I don't like the specific government of this country or the other. I don't like the policy of this government or another.
And I can tell you again, there is a serious debate in Israel, very serious debate on each and every political point, including of course, this subject. So if you say Itamar Berengir said that, what did other people, including people in the government said about his statement afterward and what they think the diversity of opinion is much bigger and the debate in Israel is really lively and intense because most of Israelis do not accept this kind of remark.
[00:31:07] Speaker A: No.
[00:31:07] Speaker B: And they find it completely tasteless to say the least.
And even a campaign, as I said, to election does not justify such a statement.
[00:31:16] Speaker A: Do you think that this violence and also the violence in words is an obstruction to peace? Long term peace?
[00:31:25] Speaker B: Peace in the Middle east is a little bit Further away, unfortunately. Unfortunately, because, you know, the violence, the main violence that still happen every day is in Gaza Strip, in the area controlled by Hamas, is in Lebanon, activity of Hezbollah. It's of all those dark forces that are supported by Iran and are very, very active.
These are the main dangers to the Middle east. And unfortunately all of them function in an area in which there will be no new government in October or November or December.
And the oppressive, extremely radical, extremely violent people with blood on their hand of hundreds of thousand in the region. These are the main challenge to peace. Our, you know, overloudly political sphere is part of a democracy, but we are the only one in the region.
So this is really the thing to understand.
The way Israel sometimes has been depicted here as this is the stumbling block for people, is absolutely untrue. And you only have to read a book about the last 20, 30 years in which Israel attempt again and again and again to come with an offer and suggestion and to give this part or this solution. And all of them have been fully rejected by the Palestinian side. But all of these historical, you know, details which are critically important are completely deleted all of a sudden. It's been Israel. It's always Israel. It's always been Israel. And a whole generation of students in your university, that's the only story they hear. They will come out of universities knowing nothing about the Middle east because the only thing they heard is from the anti Israeli, pro Palestinian, in some cases anti Semitic elements because the Israeli one on the other side of the story was not allowed in. So this is, you know, when you talk about how do people here learn about it in an environment which lack freedom of speech in universities only for one speech, not the other.
[00:33:20] Speaker A: So you being a diplomat, how do you look to the future? I know your job is to be optimistic, but there is a lot of problems that Israel is facing. Not only from the settlers that we talked about, not only about the anti Semitism, but also in the broader Middle east, the military threat. How do you look to the future?
[00:33:40] Speaker B: As we always looked to it.
This project that is called the State of Israel, our homeland, didn't start in a very comfortable time. We always grew stronger and stronger, better and better in time of immense challenges.
So it's very easy to say, oh, you know, it's too much for me, I cannot do it anymore. This is our home, this is our only home.
And just to remind people, you know, if it exists a few years later, maybe a few million Jews will find shelter there and not end their life in concentration camp here. In Europe.
So this is a commitment that we have and I feel very, very committed, like all Israeli diplomat to the existence of the state of Israel. And in spite of everything, we have a tendency to draw from it something and with strength go even stronger.
Of course we need to. I think the whole world is dealing, is changing and the challenges are for everyone, for Europe, for the United States, for us.
And we have to, as a small country, we have to kind of adjust and see how we move to the next chapter. I'm very hopeful because I think there is, and you see it every day, there are amazing people in Israel with a lot of energy and a lot of commitment and a lot of brain power to devise the future. And I do believe that in the other side, if this will be, I think we'll be able one day to find a way to live side by side.
The picture, and that's important to remember, is more complex than you see in slogan, in demonstration.
Learn about it, read about it. It's important.
[00:35:16] Speaker A: So my last question for you because there is a lot of people who are watching this show, mainly Christian people who want to support the Jewish people who want to support Israel. What can we do?
[00:35:26] Speaker B: Not be shy about your opinion because I know it's sometimes scary. I know people don't like to hear it. I know that some people will look at you and say, how can you say such a thing?
Be committed, ask the question as you did, the hard question, it's fine, we will answer them. But in the end of the day, remember what is important. This is the Jewish state. This is a fulfillment of a vision of millennias. And this place is flourishing and prospering as an island in a region which is infested by war and violence. Not all of them connected to us, by the way, just part of it.
So this is what is important to remember, to keep, as they say in America, keep your eye on the ball, which is the existence of this very, very unique country.
And just say your opinion and slowly but surely, step by step, maybe it will give shape, the vibe will change and people will be willing more and more to.
[00:36:20] Speaker A: Ambassador, thank you for coming to our studio.
[00:36:22] Speaker B: My pleasure. Thank you.
