Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker A: On se rast van wenar is Loay al Sharifredis activist at Dubai Vuhudement afgeir von Jode in Israel. Blight Herr new open look for the airgunning von Israel's Bestansrecht. Ok. Binederabiswereld seinstampen controversial what drived hem and what will he be offer SEM personneer de orlochtech Hamas the Abraham Achorde en st Wiesie ob freide inet mitte ooster lo AJ Welcome. It's a pleasure to have you here in our studio.
[00:00:48] Speaker B: Thank you so much. First time in the Netherlands?
[00:00:50] Speaker A: Yeah. We're gonna talk about your personal story about your view on the Abraham Accord, about peace. A lot of topics. But first, I want to start with the news. What is going on the past few days and what struck us is the Israeli cabinet has approved that the humanitarian aid to Gaza should be resumed on short term because the aid had been blocked from Gaza for a few months since March. And Israel says now that they will take measures to make sure that the aid does not fall in the hands of Hamas. What do you think? It's a good step that Israel is.
[00:01:25] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a good step. I think humanitarian aid should never be blocked.
I know the Israeli concerns. I know that it might fall in the hands of Hamas, but there are other ways, like the airdrops. I think the aerial aid should be resumed.
I don't really understand.
It's not that I don't really understand. I understand the fears of Israel that things can fall into the hands of Hamas, but I don't agree with the Israeli government in blocking the aid completely and using it.
[00:01:57] Speaker A: Because the humanitarian aspect.
[00:01:58] Speaker B: Yeah, because of the humanitarian aspect. And yes, you can put pressure on Hamas militarily, but you should never prevent the aid from getting into the citizens of Gaza.
I think with airdrops. Airdrops can be a solution that it can go back or like some sort of a measure that you make 100% sure through a third company or through a third party to make sure that not the weapons, the aid doesn't go to Hamas.
[00:02:31] Speaker A: Yeah, very clear. And it's a good step, we think the United Arab Emirates foreign minister, and correct me if I pronounce it wrong, but his name is Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed Al Nahyan Alayan. He said in an interview that the goals in Gaza should be first getting the hostages out. And we need calm in Gaza. We need an authority that is not Hamas, that controls Gaza and that the humanitarian support must go hand in hand with the political transformation.
So he has specific views about what should happen in Gaza. Do you agree with him?
[00:03:08] Speaker B: That's what we've been saying for the past 17 months. That's by the way. That's a brave statement from a brave person.
[00:03:14] Speaker A: Why is brave?
[00:03:15] Speaker B: Because not many Arab ministers said that clearly. I'll be very blunt. Not many Arab ministers said get the hostages out. No, no one said Hamas should not be.
Hamas should be out of the picture for the next period or for the next post war period. No one said that explicitly.
I've read.
I'll tell you my opinion. I know that so many governments are against Bibi Netanyahu. Netanyahu, I totally understand that.
But getting the hostages out and pointing fingers at those who started this war should be a moral clarity.
And I really applaud for Sheikh Abdullah for saying this clearly. And this is what humanity demands, by the way, getting the hostages out. Because this war started when Hamas decided to invade Israel, decided to take people from a rave as hostages. It did not attack military bases, military compounds alone. It went to music festivals, it went to the Catholic.
[00:04:20] Speaker A: To villages.
[00:04:20] Speaker B: To villages. I went myself and I saw the horrors of Hamas in Kibbutz Berry.
[00:04:25] Speaker A: Yeah, we're gonna come to that also.
[00:04:27] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's like this is the right statement from a very rightful minister and he hit the nail on the head.
[00:04:36] Speaker A: We also see that also in the Netherlands. The topic raises many emotions. Last Sunday there was a big demonstration in the Hague about more than 100,000 people attended. And their message to the Dutch government was that they wanted to draw a red line, actually to say to the government, you should be more harsh to Israel so that they would stop the war in Gaza.
[00:05:01] Speaker B: So what I would really like to ask those protesters or those people who made such demands, why don't they put the pressure on the party that started this war?
Because people tend to forget that in history. You cannot ask the party that didn't start the war to end the war.
The ones who started this war were Hamas. So Hamas started this war. The pressure should be on Hamas.
I am for ending this war. It's an ugly war.
It's a war that is making lots of people die.
But let's not forget it's a war that Hamas started that Israel didn't ask for, didn't want.
And it was a suicidal war by Hamas. And by the way, Hamas leaders, they don't care about their people.
They consider their peoples lives as tactical losses. So those people should be demonstrating against Hamas. They should put the Pressure on Hamas. They should put the pressure on those useful idiots in Europe.
[00:06:02] Speaker A: Are you surprised that they're not standing up against Hamas?
[00:06:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I think they are thinking that they are doing the right thing because they know that Israel is a democracy that would not take their. How to say this? Take their demands as they would take their demands as you know, this is like freedom of speech and things like that.
But I think that they are not fully aware of the dynamics in the Middle east and they don't really understand how things go.
The real pressure should be on Hamas. Hamas started this war. Hamas can end this war yesterday. They just have to release the hostages, disarm and leave. Israel or any other state would not be stupid to allow a militia on its borders that promised to repeat October 7th again and again and again. Imagine, imagine if there was a militia that went to the United Arab Emirates or Saudi Arabia and killed. So the population of United Arab Emirates is 85. I'm sorry, it's 85,000 kilometer, but it's like 10 million people.
And the population of Saudi Arabia is 30 million people. Imagine if a militia went to Saudi Arabia or in Israel and they killed Saudi Arabia or the UAE and they killed 2,500 people.
[00:07:22] Speaker A: You wouldn't accept.
[00:07:23] Speaker B: Or 3,000 people.
Or 3,500 based on the proportions things that happened in Israel.
Imagine that a militia that did so is not completely destroyed and it would be allowed to rearm. Again, no one would accept that. No one would accept that.
And Israel will not accept that because Israel now is fighting for its life.
[00:07:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Let's talk about you personally, because you were raised in Saudi Arabia with deep Islamic convictions. What changed your heart from hostility towards the Jewish people to love and respect.
[00:08:00] Speaker B: Them, by the way, not to the Jewish people alone, also to people like yourself.
[00:08:04] Speaker A: Christians. Christians.
[00:08:05] Speaker B: So Jews first, Christians second.
[00:08:07] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. What made a change in your thoughts?
[00:08:10] Speaker B: I do remember I called the Christians when I was young what we were told to call the Christians. The Crusades. The Crusaders.
[00:08:17] Speaker A: The Crusaders, yeah.
[00:08:19] Speaker B: Not Christians. Al Masiheen as Sali Beyeen. The Crusaders. So the mentality of the 12th century, I would say the times of King Philip and King Richard Lionheart and Saladin and Nuruddin Zinki. I do remember this was the terminology that we were using in the schools of Tafeed.
[00:08:37] Speaker A: So what did you say about Jews back then?
[00:08:40] Speaker B: Jews back then. Children of apes and monkeys. The enemies of God. The enemies of Muslims.
Those who don't respect God.
Those who violated the law against Moses. Those who don't deserve to Be alive. Yeah, of course. But this is what we were indoctrinated with. This is what, you know, the real change of heart or the real.
How to say this, the real awakening happened in Paris, France, when I signed up for a homestay program with a Jewish family. And the rest is history. But this was the real pivotal point.
[00:09:11] Speaker A: You stayed with a Jewish family in.
[00:09:13] Speaker B: France for the first time.
[00:09:14] Speaker A: Did you know that you were going to stay there?
[00:09:16] Speaker B: It was not actually known to me that they would be Jewish. They would be French, but Jewish, no.
And that was my first encounter. So what happened, Sarah? Many people who hate Jews haven't met a Jew in their life.
Many of those who hate Israelis haven't met an Israeli in their life. Religious hate is lethal. Religious hate is dangerous. Religious hate would end in causing harm not only to the person, to the entire group of people.
[00:09:49] Speaker A: Yeah, but you met a Jewish family and in the years before you were convicted that, you know, the Jewish people were sons of apes and pigs.
[00:09:59] Speaker B: Yeah. And they are the enemies of Muslims, the enemies of Islam.
[00:10:02] Speaker A: But that contradicts each other.
[00:10:03] Speaker B: So what, that needed some sort of an audacity, courage to confront your old bad ideas and debate and to somehow, if you are so sincere in reaching the truth, I believe that you would reach it one day.
[00:10:24] Speaker A: You mean the debate in your head?
[00:10:26] Speaker B: The debate in your debate? In my head, yeah. I was having lots of struggle, but the encounter with the Jewish family gave me the opportunity to learn from the source in the Arab world. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, also in different parts of the Arab world, we learn about Judaism and about the Jews from the most anti Semitic Arab professors in universities, in media, in social media. Even back then when it was social media. But back then they were called the forums. So the forums were like the social media back then, so. Or in Arabic, al muntadayat.
So we thought that we were the experts because we learned exactly from the.
From the most anti Semitic professors.
[00:11:14] Speaker A: But then you were in Paris with a Jewish family, and then you came back home and your worldview completely changed.
[00:11:24] Speaker B: I decided to learn more from the source, not from the adversaries. I lost trust in so many Muslim scholars. That was my biggest disconnection with radical Islam. Not with Islam as a faith, but with radical Islam. Sarah, there's a difference between radical Islam and Islam. Spiritual Muslims and radical Muslims.
So I always say, a Muslim, if he wants to pray, he can pray peacefully in a mosque or at home. A radical Muslim, when he wants to pray, he shuts down the roads in Amsterdam, in New York, in London to pray. Why do you need to shut down roads to pray? Because it's not a ceremony for prayer. It's a ceremony for showing power, showing domination, that you will win. That's the difference between radical.
A regular Muslim, a spiritual Muslim can pray at home or in a mosque simply. But a radical Muslim wants to show, I'm here.
[00:12:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Now you stated that there is no contradiction between being a Muslim and recognizing the legitimacy of Israel.
[00:12:33] Speaker B: I think a true Muslim who understands religions so well, who understands history so well, who understands the Bible so well, who understands the context of the Quran itself, even with the criticism of the Jews in the 7th century because of the tension between the Byzantine Empire and the Christians and the Jews at that time, and Prophet Muhammad, he would absolutely, absolutely support the idea of having the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, which is Israel, which is, by the way, which is called Israel not only by Jewish prophets but also by Jesus of the Nazareth who called the land Israel. In the Gospel of Matthew, when he talked about the end days that the Son of man will come back.
And he said, I verily say to you, the Son of man will not come back.
Verily. I say to you, you'll go through the cities of Israel until the Son of man comes back. He called it Israel. And there are millions of Muslims who are named Isa, which is Jesus.
And they say a true Muslim would not call the land Israel, but they are named after the person who called it Israel.
[00:13:49] Speaker A: Because last weekend you were one of the speakers at the conference of Sid.
Protesters were gathering outside and they called you an infidel. So we are now in the same club supporting Israel.
[00:14:01] Speaker B: We're now in the same club.
[00:14:02] Speaker A: Yeah. So how do you respond to them?
[00:14:06] Speaker B: So I don't take it, you know why I don't take it heavy on me? Because one day I was in their shoes.
One day I was in their shoes. I know how they think.
I have the keys to dismantle the hate.
I didn't, I was not offended.
[00:14:21] Speaker A: Did you give them the keys?
[00:14:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I gave them the keys.
When they shouted at me and they said, free Palestine, I said, I absolutely agree with that. Free Palestine from Hamas. That is the right thing to say.
And of course, if those protesters want to have a dialogue, want to listen, I would be more than happy to talk with them.
But usually the pro Palestine, not the pro Palestine, the pro Hamas supporters or protesters, they don't really want to talk. They want to shout. Intimidate.
They can intimidate white European, American Gen Zs, they can intimidate white Westerners, but they cannot intimidate an Arab Muslim who was once in their shoes, defeated the hate with knowledge, facts and the truth. They cannot intimidate a person like me. I became invincible because I know Islam inside out.
[00:15:18] Speaker A: But still it touches you inside. If somebody calls you an infidel, it's not really a fun thing.
[00:15:23] Speaker B: Yeah, but it was like, I was like, I'm so sure the protesters would not be able to read one page of the Quran without making a mistake.
To me, I memorized the Quran at the age of 17, so I don't think I'm an infidel. But I'm just saying that, that they are so angry. They have no common sense, no knowledge.
And if they are willing to listen, I would be more than happy to discuss it with them. Especially that they know very well that I know Islam inside. Sarah. I know Islam inside out. I'm not bragging. This is a fact. I know it very well.
So I can absolutely debunk their lies and misinformation.
[00:16:10] Speaker A: Okay, so you've been in Israel also. After October 7, you visited sites like Kfar Aza, Kibbutz Be' Eri, as you just mentioned, and you even produced a documentary on the October 7th massacre in Arabic. What was your goal about showing the Arab world What happened on October 7th?
[00:16:31] Speaker B: That's a very good question.
I have two types of audiences or three types. I would say English speaking, Arabic speaking, Hebrew speaking, Hebrew speaking. So the Hebrew speaking and the English speakings are overlapped. So mainly let's say English speaking and Arab speaking audience deserve to also learn more about the truth that is kept away from them in the Arab media.
[00:16:54] Speaker A: So what did you tell them?
[00:16:56] Speaker B: So I told them that this war really started on October 7th when Hamas decided to invade Israel. I explained the difference between what they have in mind when it comes to occupation. Let me just explain, to explain on this. In the Arab media, they say the occupying Israeli army. Jaysh Alhala, Israeli what do they mean by that? Occupying? In the Arab mentality, all the land of Canaan or British Mandate Palestine is occupied.
In the international law, the occupation or the disputed lands are the west bank and Gaza. But that is not the mentality in the Arab media when they talk about so called occupation.
So they really want to end. When they say they want to end the occupation, they want to annihilate Israel.
[00:17:54] Speaker A: From the river to the sea.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: If you push them hard, they would say no, no, no, we want the two states. I know the tactics very well. I know the openly evasive Dialogues that run in Arab media.
[00:18:09] Speaker A: Tell me something about that. What kind of dialogues?
[00:18:11] Speaker B: So, for example, I just told you so when they say as long as there is an occupation, resistance is justified.
So you explain to them that Hamas invaded parts of in Israel, that according to the international law, it is not a Palestinian territory, it is an Israeli land. Even according to the international law that you always say sharia dawliyya or the international.
The international court or the international law. According to the international law. So Hamas invaded part of Israel, not a Palestinian territory or a disputed land.
But in the Arab media, so many Arab media channels, when they talk about the occupation, they really mean all the land of British man, that Palestine is occupied, and then just the resistance is justified. What kind of resistance, Sarah? What kind of resistance?
[00:19:11] Speaker A: Well, that's what they say. They say there has been 75 years of occupation. There has been Palestinian displacement, there has been apartheid against Palestinians.
[00:19:20] Speaker B: That is, of course, that is logical.
That is absolutely preposterous. The apartheid and everything else. But let me just get it step by step. So there is an oppression, you're saying, right, and you are resisting. Let's say that you invaded a Palestinian territory in order to liberate somebody. Okay, Please pinpoint a dictionary where kidnapping a toddler is resistance.
Please pinpoint a dictionary where we're going into a rave, kidnapping women, children, elderly, raping women is resistance.
Point to me a dictionary where throwing a hand grenade by the Hamas terrorists in a bunker, a grenade after a grenade after a grenade, to people who are not armed, people who run away with their lives is resistance. By the way, 6 million Jews were perished in Europe.
Have you ever heard of a Jewish suicide bomber?
Why not? I was oppressed. I want to liberate my people.
I want to blow myself up amidst the Germans in order to grab attention to my cause.
[00:20:32] Speaker A: Yeah, but that didn't happen.
[00:20:33] Speaker B: That didn't happen because the mentality is different.
The mentality is different. The Jewish mentality is to succeed.
The Jewish mentality is to build.
But the death cult mentality of so many radical Islamists that influence the Palestinian people, the majority of the Palestinian people, unfortunately, is a way that they love death more than other people love life.
[00:20:58] Speaker A: So you made this documentary for the Arab world in Arabic. What were the reactions?
[00:21:03] Speaker B: Did you get posted reactions?
I didn't publish all the episodes. I published just a few.
And I really contacted, reached out to some Arab media channels to broadcast this. They said this is too much. They said this is too much. We cannot. Some of them are even in countries that have relations with Israel. They didn't accept.
So I understand. So social media is our. Thank God we have social media. Thank God we have social media. Social media. So I stopped publishing the rest of the episodes because I want to have a big campaign that would help boost these videos to reach a wider audience.
[00:21:42] Speaker A: Yeah, you want to reach the whole Arab world.
[00:21:44] Speaker B: I want to reach the whole Arab world to know the truth. Because there is nothing called apartheid in Israel. There is nothing called open air prison.
By the way, I have so many Arab and Muslim friends who are Israeli citizens who told me in the face I would never want to live in Israel, any part of the Arab and Muslim world, except Israel, because. Because they have full rights, because they believe that their dignity is kept, because they know that it's a Jewish state. But they are treated so well and they can thrive, flourish and achieve what they want.
[00:22:19] Speaker A: Yeah, but still you have social media. You have a big reach among English speakers, Hebrew speakers and Arab speakers.
But specifically focusing on the Arab world, what are the reactions that you get as a person for speaking out for Israel?
[00:22:34] Speaker B: Yeah, you get lots of hate, but you also get lots of love from people in Europe, in America. Israel is not hated. Sarah, you really want the proof? Eurovision, who won the popular vote?
Yuvar Rafael. Israel. That sends a message. I think the moral clarity in so many people, the moral compass is in the right direction. So. So, yeah, you receive lots of hate because you speak for the right of Israel to exist and the right of Israel to defend itself. And by the way, the right of Israel to exist should never be disputed. Should never be. It should be undisputed.
I was in Rome a week ago and I visited the Arch of Titus. The Arch of Titus is a great proof of Israel's legitimacy because it's.
It's not just how to say this. A monument. No, it's a monument that has the story of people carrying the menorah from Judea. What does that tell you?
It tells us that the Jewish temple was there because the menorah, it's a.
[00:23:42] Speaker A: Proof of the temple.
[00:23:43] Speaker B: Yeah, but in the Arab media, you know what they call the Jewish temple? The so called Jewish temple. There was never a Jewish temple. Oh, by the way, it was in Yemen.
[00:23:51] Speaker A: Yeah, but do you see a change in the Arab world?
Slowly towards Israel?
[00:23:56] Speaker B: Slowly but surely you do. I believe now in the times of war.
In the times of war, it's difficult. I understand that people are emotional when it comes to wars. And as I told you, it's an ugly war that Hamas started, that Hamas Sparked that Hamas made a suicidal decision.
By the way, when you hear the words of Hamas leaders, when they speak about their people, you know that they are. You will understand why so many moderate Arab states like the UAE fight Islamists. Because these people are psychopaths, are delusional.
[00:24:33] Speaker A: They don't care about the lives of.
[00:24:34] Speaker B: You know what a leader of Hamas said two days ago? Yeah, we lost 50,000 people, but we can reproduce. Simple, crazy. Yeah, People who die, they're just numbered.
[00:24:46] Speaker A: Let's talk about the Abraham Accords. Do you think they got a major blow on October 7th?
[00:24:52] Speaker B: Yes, but you know why?
Because the Biden administration didn't help the Abraham Accords.
The Abraham Accords wouldn't succeed without the US we need a strong American administration to boost the Abraham Accords, to help the Abraham Accords, to. To stand on its feet.
[00:25:17] Speaker A: Why is the Abraham Accord so important for the Middle East?
[00:25:20] Speaker B: It is so important because it is the right thing. By the way, I tell you what I mean by it's the right thing.
The Middle east is comprised of Arabs and a small country that is called Israel, the size of New Jersey. So the Arab states and Israel, they form the depiction of the children of Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac. Ishmael and Isaac did not communicate in their adult life, but they communicated when Abraham died.
When Abraham died, Ishmael and Isaac buried Abraham in Hebron.
Abraham united ishmael and Isaac 4000 years ago. Abraham Accords united Arabs and Muslims, Arabs and Israel and Jews 4,000 years later. So it is the right thing to bring the children of Abraham together. Muslims have. We have two holy sites, one in Mecca, one in Medina. Jews have one only site, which is Har Habayt, the Jewish temple in Jerusalem that was their capital for so many years. It is the right thing because it brings Muslims and Jews, Arabs and Israelis closer. In a region that needs to stay away from wars, chaos and anarchy.
[00:26:41] Speaker A: Are you optimistic that the Abraham Accords will grow?
[00:26:44] Speaker B: Yes.
Especially when this war ends. When this war ends, by the way, when this war ends, many will realize that Israel was not fighting a war on its behalf.
Israel is fighting a war on behalf of humanity.
And many people who don't see it this way now, they will see it later when they realize that a radical Islamist terrorist group like Hamas is defeated because everyone else can be next. Trust me, even the useful idiots in the west who don't understand Hamas well, who don't understand the Muslim Brotherhood or the radical groups, they will thank Israel later, I promise you.
[00:27:23] Speaker A: What would you say to Christian people here in Europe or in the west who are unsure about which side to stay to support in this conflict.
[00:27:30] Speaker B: A true Christian. A true Christian must stand with Israel.
A true Christian who understands the Bible so well, who understands history so well, who understands moral values so well, must side with Israel, not with Hamas. And by the way, I side also with the Palestinian people to live in dignity. It is not mutually exclusive. You side with Israel in its war against Hamas, but you also side with the Palestinian people because I always say the Palestinians deserve to live in dignity. The Palestinians. I don't agree with those who say all Palestinians are Hamas. This is not correct.
So being with Israel is being on the right side of history. Israel is fighting a battle for all humanity. And I want to say to Christians for Israel, by the way, you are the true Ansar Allah.
Ansarallah is the group name of Al Houthi. Al Houthi, they call themselves Ansarallah, which means supporters of Allah.
You know who are the real Ansarallah in the Quran? The disciples of Jesus, Thomas, John, Matthew.
So the Houthis are named after a Jewish group that they were calling themselves the disciples of Jesus of the Nazareth. They are not the real Ansar Allah.
Christians for Israel and evangelicals and those who support the Jewish state are the real Ansarallah.
[00:28:58] Speaker A: Al Sharif, thank you very much for coming here.
[00:29:00] Speaker B: Thank you so much. A real pleasure.
[00:29:08] Speaker A: On the website and oaktaser. Outstanding. And on the podcast.
